2022年7月1日，城伽（上海）规划建筑设计咨询有限公司作为「超 · 越｜鉴湖新盛景」绍兴鉴湖概念规划与方案设计国际竞赛的六强团队，在为期两天现场踏勘的间歇，接受了竞赛协办单位拾分之壹的专访，以下为采访实录：
On July 1, 2022, URBANPLUS (Shanghai) Planning and Architectural Design Consulting Co., Ltd., as one of the top six teams in the Shaoxing Jianhu Conceptual Planning and Scheme Design International Competition for “Beyond Yue Jianhu New Scenery”, accepted an interview with one tenth of the competition co organizers during a two-day on-site survey break. The following is the interview transcript:
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Click for the full interview video
本期受访
Interviewees
陈枫 Chen Feng
城伽（上海）规划建筑设计咨询有限公司｜创始合伙人
URBANPLUS (Shanghai) Planning and Architectural Design Consulting Co., Ltd. | Founding Partner
斯蒂芬·费尔赫斯特 Stephen Fairhurst
城伽（上海）规划建筑设计咨询有限公司｜首席设计顾问
URBANPLUS (Shanghai) Planning and Architectural Design Consulting Co., Ltd. | Chief Design Consultant
Q&A
#Question 1: 请您做一个简短的自我介绍
Please give a brief self-introduction
斯蒂芬·费尔赫斯特 Stephen Fairhurst:
我是斯蒂芬·费尔赫斯特，是一名规划师和景观建筑师。我曾在全世界许多国家工作过，在过去的20至25年里，我主要在中国进行工作，所从事的项目与各种类型的滨水空间息息相关。
I’m Stephen Fairhurst, I’m a planner and a landscape architect. I’ve worked worldwide in many countries. For the last 20-25 years, I’ve been working mainly in China. My work is about a lot of waterfronts with many types of projects.
陈枫 Chen Feng:
我是城伽（上海）规划建筑设计咨询有限公司的陈枫。我们的团队主要注重在顶层设计，也包括对城市环境品质的打造。我们目前的业务主要聚焦在四个方面——城市更新、TOD的开发、产业园区，以及文旅规划。
I’m Chen Feng from URBANPLUS (Shanghai) Planning and Architectural Design Consulting Co., Ltd. Our team mainly focuses on Top-Down Design, also on the quality of the urban environment. Our current business mainly focuses on four aspects — urban renewal, transit-oriented development, industrial parks, and cultural tourism planning.
像本次竞赛中鉴湖这样一个尺度的规划，以及对它整个环境品质的打造，都是我们非常熟悉的领域。我们也希望通过这次竞赛，通过我们整个团队的合作，能够把鉴湖打造成为未来整个绍兴、乃至长三角的空间和形象地标。
We are familiar with planning and design on a massive scale and the creation of the entire environmental quality, just like Jianhu in this competition. Through this competition and the cooperation of our team, we would like to build Jianhu into a spatial and iconic landmark of Shaoxing and even the Yangtze River Delta in the future.
#Question 2: 这是您第一次来到绍兴或鉴湖吗？您对这里有怎样的印象？
Is this your first time to Shaoxing/Jianhu? What is your impression of this place?
斯蒂芬·费尔赫斯特 Stephen Fairhurst:
这并非我第一次到绍兴，大约6年前我曾多次造访这里。不过，我主要还是在中国的其他城市进行工作。在我眼中，绍兴并未发生天翻地覆的巨变，至少鉴湖地区没有。这座城市的其他地方确实改变了不少。
It’s not the first time. About 6 years ago, I was visiting Shaoxing many times. I have been mainly working in other parts of China, but Shaoxing has not changed hugely, at least in the Jianhu area. The rest of the city has changed a lot in 6 years.
陈枫 Chen Feng:
我其实应该算是第二次来鉴湖。大概20年前，高中时代的春游是我第一次来到这里，给我留下了一个非常深刻的印象。
In fact, it is my second visit to Jianhu. About 20 years ago when I was in high school, we went to Jianhu for the spring outing, and it left a deep impression on me.
现在，第二次来到鉴湖，我看到了很多空间层面的变化，包括城市道路、整体景观打造等等，可以看出在过去10年至20年之间，鉴湖发生了天翻地覆的变化。我们在这里接触到的居民和原住民，他们的生活状态也发生着一定的转变——这和20年前的鉴湖之行形成了非常独特、难得的对比。
Now, when I came to Jianhu for the second time, I saw many changes spatially, including urban roads, overall landscape construction, etc. It is obvious that in the past 10 or 20 years, Jianhu has undergone disruptive changes. The living conditions of the residents and local people we met here have also undergone a certain transformation, which is a unique and rare contrast to my trip to Jianhu 20 years ago.
#Question 3: 您和团队对于入围本次竞赛六强有何感受？
How do you and your team feel about being shortlisted for this competition?
斯蒂芬·费尔赫斯特 Stephen Fairhurst:
从多方面来说，这确实是种美妙的感觉。它是我非常喜欢的那类项目，它充满挑战，又蕴含着多种可能性。而且，我很高兴中国以及整个世界正在逐步渡过新冠疫情这一难关。来到这里，就像重启一个好项目一样，感受到了新鲜的气息。
It’s really a good feeling in many ways. It’s the kind of project that I really enjoy. It’s challenging and it has a lot of possibilities. At the same time, I’m happy because China has been going through, as the world has been going through difficult times with Covid. So being here is like a breath of fresh air to start working on a good project again.
陈枫 Chen Feng:
这次入围对悉地国际和城伽团队都有着非常重要的意义。尤其在疫情时期，团队很多的核心主创都是在居家办公的环境中，来进行配合工作和创作发挥。所以从我个人的角度来说，是非常感谢团队在这个时刻的协作与贡献的。也希望在未来，在疫情过后，我们团队各专业之间能有更好的协同作战的基础和能力，从而使得我们最终提交的成果远远超出预审阶段的表现。
Being shortlisted at this time means a lot for both CCDI and Urbanplus. Especially during the pandemic, the majority of our team designers are home-based, they tried their best to create and cooperate remotely. Therefore, I am grateful to the team for their collaboration and contribution at this moment. When the pandemic ends in the near future, hopefully, our team will have a better foundation and ability to cooperate, so that we could exceed our performance of the pre-qualification and present a perfect project that would be even better.
#Question 4: 您怎样理解这次竞赛的「超·越」主题呢？
How do you understand “Beyond YUE”, the theme of this competition?
斯蒂芬·费尔赫斯特 Stephen Fairhurst:
我并非史学家，但我对中国的历史和文化了解颇深，我有一个非常大的图书馆。我认为这个主题非常有趣——它既是过去，也预示着未来，还有我们如何看待“现在”这样一个时间交接的界面，以及它逐渐演进、改变的方式。从这个角度去去切入鉴湖非常好，作为一名外国人，我也能完全理解其中深意。
I’m not a historian, but I do know quite a lot about Chinese history and culture. I have a very big library. I think that it’s a good theme. It’s very interesting because it’s the past, it’s the future, and how we can now look at the interface and how it moves. It’s a good theme and it’s one that I could understand even as a foreigner.
陈枫 Chen Feng:
对于本次竞赛中“Beyond YUE”概念，我们的团队从两个维度进行了考虑。
For the concept of “Beyond Yue” in this competition, we considered it from two dimensions.
一方面，我们对历史做了相应的深入研究，我们希望能够超越历史上的高光时刻，这个高光时刻发生在宋代。这个朝代对于鉴湖来说是意义非凡的，这里的空间、环境、文化价值都达到了巅峰状态。我们希望能够在竞赛中，再次超越昔日的繁盛状态。
On the one hand, we have delved into the historical records and found out that Song Dynasty is the highlight moment for Jianhu. Our goal is to surpass its heyday and create a better future planning. To Jianhu, the Song Dynasty is of great significance, where the space, environment, and cultural value have all reached their peak. At this competition, we want to reenact the past glory of the Song Dynasty and even exceed its prosperity.
第二，我们也希望这次“超越”是面向未来的。正如今天管委会主任所言，这个规划是一个远期规划，是关乎10年、20年以后的远期规划。我们自己其实也希望把眼光放得更长远，放到50年，甚至说百年的维度再去审视这个规划，我们希望它是一个超长期、可持续的。我们希望无论是整体的政策还是其他因素，或者它周边的环境发生了变化，我们所作出的规划概念和空间结构，都还是能够维持下去。希望像领导所提到的，做出“传世之作”。
On the other hand, we also hope that “Beyond YUE” is future-oriented. As the Director of the Management Committee said today, this plan is a long-term plan that will last for 10 or 20 years. In fact, we would like to take a longer-term perspective, in 50 years, or even a hundred years. Longevity and sustainability are our priorities for this project. Whether the overall policy, other factors or the surrounding environment has changed in the future, the concept and spatial structure of this project can still last for a long time. Just like what the Management Committee mentioned, we would like to design a “Project of Heritage”.
#Question 5: 最后，请您谈谈此次概念提案的核心理念？
Finally, could you talk about the core concept of your proposal?
斯蒂芬·费尔赫斯特 Stephen Fairhurst:
我认为我们的方案是非常注重环境的。我们必须尊重现有的环境，必须着眼于整合资源。将绍兴作为一种暗喻，“编织”起鉴湖。这就是我们方案概念的大致内容。
I think that our proposal is looking very much at the environment. We have to respect the existing environment. We have to look at the integration, use a Shaoxing metaphor, and “stitch” Jianhu together. I think that is for me what our concept is all about.
陈枫 Chen Feng:
我们的策略或者说模式，是“编织式”的规划。
Our planning strategy or pattern can be called as the plan of “stitch”.
因为绍兴鉴湖其实是介于存量更新与增量发展之间的状态，我们可以看到鉴湖在现阶段是需要有增量的，需要注入一些产业空间，去激活它整个景区的IP形象。但同时我们也需要关注到目前景区内部已有的生态及原住民的生活状态，包括景观的状态。
Shaoxing Jianhu is in a state between stock-based renewal and incremental development. We can see the situation that Jianhu needs to focus on at this stage, some industrial spaces need to be developed to activate its IP image of the entire scenic spot. But at the same time, we also need to focus on the environment within the scenic area and the living conditions of the local people, including the state of the landscape.
所以说这是其实是存量规划与增量规划之间的平衡。像斯蒂芬所说，是一个“编织式”的规划方法，我们会小心翼翼地去把鉴湖这幅图卷描绘好。
So, our project is to balance the stock-based renewal and incremental development. As Stephen said, this is the plan of “stitch”, and we will do our best to carefully portray beautiful scenery for Jianhu.